Creepiness at the Christmas party

[Steph]

I didn't attend my company's party this Saturday for a number of reasons, not least of which is a supervisor in my department.

She's my age (32 or 33) & very masculine looking. She lives at home (not that there's anything wrong with that) & is an in-the-closet lesbian (again, not that there's anything wrong with that).

She's hit on me a couple of times at social functions after work & I kinda brushed it off although it caused me to avoid her at work as much as possible.

When I came into work yesterday, I had a couple of people ask me for advice about her. She apparently hit on a new staff member quite aggressively (to give just one example of her inappropriate behaviour that night). She emailed the staff member after the party & even called her yesterday at work (the supervisor had the day off).

The new staff member didn't want to call her back because she felt uncomfortable & I told her she didn't have to if she didn't want to. She asked if she should tell another supervisor & I said if she wanted to, she should (but I did tell her that the supervisor in question wouldn't do much at that moment but hey, at least it's a record of it, right?).

Like I said, I initially brushed off her advances but now I am witnessing them become more aggressive in nature & am not sure what to do (if anything).

I guess I'll see how things go in the office today but just wondered if anyone has had anything similar happen in their workplace &/or had any thoughts/advice on what to do.

[Lilith]

I had sort of a similar situation but was a young girl and just ignored it until I moved to a new job. I would make sure that the co-worker sends her a clear "not interested" message and foward the email to someone higher for record keeping.

[Steph]

Yeah, I'm iffy on it. It makes me want to leave the company more. An HR friend suggested we report it immediately but it's a tough decision to make. What's the line between sexual harassment & drunkeness at the party?

[Sharni]

Drunk or not..it's still sexual harrassment

A definate "i'm not interested and back off or else" would be my response

[IowaMan]

If there's anything I learned from spending years in a management position it is that even the things that seem small need to be documented. Sharni is right, this is sexual harrassment. That has to be reported to HR. Not an easy decision, I know, but it is the correct one.

It's the small things that, when left alone to start, fester into larger problems. If not addressed now, it could end up causing a much larger problem for more people than just the ones involved now.

[PantyFanatic]

Interesting responses.

I wonder what the first-thought responses would be (including my own) had it been opposite genders or even an 'attractive' girl-on-girl pass.

There is no question that an advance was made and that today there is a system as eager to deal with it as it once was to ignore the issue. It would seem it largely depends on what the offended person really wants to happen and how 'harassed' they truly feel they were. Only the parties involved know their personal feelings.

Is the desire to just bring it to an end with a 'not interested' or exercise the system or even persecute by an individual standard? My knee-jerk reaction is to be aware there is a system that is available for help, but also that the system is a steamroller, once put into motion. Often it is itself obligated to a course that rolls over everybody, regardless of intent, interpretation or the desires of either party.

My personal, first reaction is to address the issue 'personally'. Making it 'clear' that I do not like, want, or am going to have ANY of this, could well resolve it there. I would then 'keep' my backup of any and all documentation and I would 'verbally' make a note of the incident with the 'someone higher', (including a note of the date/time/higher-up' I made note with).

I'm not crazy about an either/or method as first choice. When a progression can be made to reach the desired result, that's all I'm interested in. When all else fails, you take it to the next level, but that is more of a guy thing I guess.

[Oldfart]

A lot of MP3 players have recording capability.

Tape a quiet "Thanks, but no thanks".

If she gets shitty, then go to upper management, using the tape as backup.

If she appears to acquiesce, then starts making life hell, you have the basis for a scream to the bosses.

[Steph]

She was bugging me at work yesterday (along with the entire dept.) so I had a talk with another supervisor. It had to be done. She's acting like there's nothing wrong & is really disrupting work with her constant chatter.

A lot of people are uncomfortable & it needed to be addressed.

[Lilith]

Here's what happened in a case here recently http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/22/fire.chief.ap/index.html

[Wicked Wanda]

(Wanda Kitty unsheaths her claws)

:box:

As a woman who loves women, this issue is awkward for me to address.

Until Katrina I was a Supervisor. (My former place of work no longer exists)
As a WOMAN, not just as a bisexual, I had to tread ever so lightly in my actions. As we climb the authority ladders we are open to more scrutiny and rush to judgment than men are prone to.

Guys, PLEASE don't protest "Oh no, that's not true anymore"
Believe me, IT IS STILL THE RULE.

This is the reason I NEVER saw co-workers away from work.
(Ok there was our intern, but that was only away from work, I had limited authority over him, it was purely physical, and it started just a couple weeks before he was due to leave. He was giving me a ride to work, arrived at my apartment early, and oh never mind!)

I dressed in a much more "proper" fashion, and generally always wore a bra. No plunging necklines, short skirts, tummy baring styles or sheer tops.
I NEVER flirted with male employees, (I wasn't out as bi at work, as the Sisters owned and operated the clinic) and never touched or even hugged female employees. This left me the reputation as being a little cold and distant, but so be it.

I created a huge, dense barrier between work and the rest of my life.

Having explained all that, now to address what has been posted here.

First:
A boorish, harrassing supervisor is a harrasing supervisor no matter what their sexual orientation. If they are warned off, (politely) and they press things, then going up the ladder to complain is the only thing to do.
Anyone can be guilty of abusing their authority, man or Woman.

I think Steph handled this well.

BUT!

I have some MAJOR issues with the Fire Chief story.
I think it is telling, even disturbing, that she supposedly showed favortism not just to lesbians, but to "those who socialized with them"

What I read between the lines is soooo disturbing.

Plain and simple, in that department, if you didn't like lesbians, refused to socialize with them, you didn't get preferential treatment.

Socialize with them as to get to know them as people, and LET THEM GET TO KNOW YOU!!!

NOWHERE does it say that these victims were acted against in some way, that they were harrased, i.e sex for favors, unwanted sexual attention or advances, just that they didn't get any preferential treatment.

Let's flip things a bit, and look at it like this.

A black supervisor shows preferential treatment to those who are black, OR to white, asian or hispanic employees who socialize with with blacks in his company. He shows favortism to those, white or black or other, who make an effort to get to know him, AND EACH OTHER,letting him know who they are, what kind of people they are, and that they are accepting of blacks as supervisors.
So he is demoted and looses his supervisory position.

Please go back and re-read the story, and then re-read everthing I wrote above before you have a fit and call me names.


WW

[rabbit]

Yeah, I'm iffy on it. It makes me want to leave the company more. An HR friend suggested we report it immediately but it's a tough decision to make. What's the line between sexual harassment & drunkeness at the party?

Steph, your HR friend is 100% correct.

[Wicked Wanda]

No, not THAT curse.

I killed another thread.

Wanda

[gekkogecko]

Did you? Or, did the thread just hit the point where Steph's issues have worked themselves out? (In the sense of what she needed to do/say here on Pixie's, not at her workplace: two very different situations, actually).

[Scarecrow]

No, not THAT curse.

I killed another thread.

Wanda


I have not posted to the thread so I know its not dead yet







ooooooooooooppps :sad:

[Wicked Wanda]

I't a dead issue, or at least a dead thread...

*sighs*

I swear, (a lot while drinking, anyway) that I am going to try to figure out why what I write kills these threads. I mean, I was really trying hard to provoke lively debate.

My theses defense was BORING!!

A few quiet questions about my sample size and methodology, and *POOF* I'm an MSN/MPH!

Oy!!!

(Miriam, my current dating companion, is loves yiddish idioms, so that is for you, sweetie)


WW

[scotzoidman]

Actually, you just missed livening it up...but my 1st response was self-censored when I realised I was blathering from the tequila (my 1st taste of alchyhol in a loooong time)...then I tried to respond to your "I killed the thread" post, when my puter decided it had had enough internet service & wanted to reboot...

[Belial]

I dressed in a much more "proper" fashion, and generally always wore a bra. No plunging necklines, short skirts, tummy baring styles or sheer tops.
I NEVER flirted with male employees, (I wasn't out as bi at work, as the Sisters owned and operated the clinic) and never touched or even hugged female employees. This left me the reputation as being a little cold and distant, but so be it.



If you were a man, would you be able to show that much and still maintain respectability? Wear your shirts open down to below the chest, tight shorts? Would it be ok for you to hug employees, or flirt with female employees? I certainly wouldn't be able to.



BUT!

I have some MAJOR issues with the Fire Chief story.
I think it is telling, even disturbing, that she supposedly showed favortism not just to lesbians, but to "those who socialized with them"

What I read between the lines is soooo disturbing.

Plain and simple, in that department, if you didn't like lesbians, refused to socialize with them, you didn't get preferential treatment.

Socialize with them as to get to know them as people, and LET THEM GET TO KNOW YOU!!!

NOWHERE does it say that these victims were acted against in some way, that they were harrased, i.e sex for favors, unwanted sexual attention or advances, just that they didn't get any preferential treatment.

Let's flip things a bit, and look at it like this.

A black supervisor shows preferential treatment to those who are black, OR to white, asian or hispanic employees who socialize with with blacks in his company. He shows favortism to those, white or black or other, who make an effort to get to know him, AND EACH OTHER,letting him know who they are, what kind of people they are, and that they are accepting of blacks as supervisors.
So he is demoted and looses his supervisory position.

Please go back and re-read the story, and then re-read everthing I wrote above before you have a fit and call me names.


WW

I see your point, but I disagree. It is still unfair to treat employees preferentially because you like them, or drink with them after work, or chat with them at the water cooler, or because you think they agree with your sexual preference or skin colour. If your employee is accepting of your sexual preference or skin colour to the point where they act in a subordinate manner, that should be all that is required. If I didn't get promoted because I didn't have a beer with the boss, or people who look like the boss, when it was clear that I deserved it on performance, I'd be inclined to take action too.

[denny]

I've read the postings and just want to share my thoughts. Yes, it is definitely sexual harassment. Gender or lifestyle has no bearing on the behavior. While reporting may bring some heat and discomfort to you, it is the right thing to do. I would also counsel your fellow workers to do the same. Perhaps if someone had previously done just this, you wouldn't be in this situation now. Don't pass the problem on, deal with it now. Best of luck, I know this isn't easy. :shrug:

[campingboy]

I have a few personal rules that I follow as a manager.
1) Never drink at any work function.
2) I am there Boss, not a co-worker. I can share some personal life information, take interest in there lives, but I can never be there confidant, best friend, or one of the group.
3) The two foot bubble. Never enter into that space. Shake hands and then back away to keep the comfort zone.

Following these might seem cold and distant but it allows me to manage my staff without them feeling uncomfortable around me. My job is just that, a job. A place of work, not a dating center.